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Hi all,

Pleased to report that the release of ClearOS Community Edition 6.3 beta (ISOs) is imminent...possibly tomorrow! As anyone who has used these forums will know, the introduction of the mail stack, powered by Zarafa, is the highlight.

And if you're aware of that, you'll know that much of the integration work for Zarafa has been done by a volunteer ClearFoundation Community member, Tim Burgess, in the 5.x series. Prior to version 6, we didn't have a model to support and foster community contributions. With the huge effort Pete et al have put into the framework and developer docs, and with the introduction of Marketplace, we do.

I was able to hookup for a beer with Tim when I was in the UK last month. It was interesting getting his perspective on ClearOS and the Community...More recently, Mike and Tim batted around different ideas of how Zarafa Community app should enter the Marketplace. We all agreed it would be nice to give Tim more than just a beer (I hope I picked up the tab...I really can't remember) for all the time he's put into the project...not just on the Zarafa app integration, but in supporting users via the forums.

The net result is that Zarafa Community Edition is going to have a modest ($US 10), one-time fee to purchase and download the app. The bulk of the proceeds from users who purchase this app from the Marketplace will go directly to Tim - ClearCenter is only slightly more than a payment facilitator.

I'll be interested to see what the community 'pulse' will be on this decision...it's my hope that many of you will understand that this is good for Tim, good for future developers to the ClearOS platform, good for ClearOS --- and ultimately, good for ClearOS users.

Cheers,

Ben
Tuesday, June 26 2012, 11:52 PM
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  • Accepted Answer

    Wednesday, June 27 2012, 12:22 AM - #Permalink
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    Obviously I would like to see a core item such as mail be free. Also I would like more contributions to and its great that Tim did all that work. So for me its not much and hopefully this will attract overs.

    I work with Joomla and their market place (extension directory) has flourished this way.

    To be honest I would like to see subscriptions work along the lines of you pay for what you use as well.

    If we have a great application like Zarafa anybody looked at Alfresco, Openbravo and a few other best ofs in the open source world.

    It would be great to have community editions with a small cost to cover integration work.

    Stuart
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    Wednesday, June 27 2012, 11:44 AM - #Permalink
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    Hi,

    Although I appreciate all the work done by Tim, I am disappointed that what I would consider to be a basic part of ClearOS - the mail server - is no longer free. The main reasons I started using ClarkConnect were to share mail at home so I did not have to play musical PC's and to share files for the same reason. IPSec VPN was a bonus (although I knew at the time I would have to configure it manually because of remote endpoint considerations). I understand people need to live and the software has been free up to now, and on this basis I've been more than happy to give my time back to the community. The ClearOS business model has been built on a free core produce with paid for bolt ons and support contracts. This developed from the ClarkConnect model where mail for up to 10 mailboxes was still free. For the home user a mail server should still be included in the free core functionality.
    I feel pretty strongly that this is the wrong direction it certainly leaves me wondering if I'll be upgrading from 5.2

    Nick
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  • Accepted Answer

    Wednesday, June 27 2012, 12:54 PM - #Permalink
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    I'm with Nick on this one. I was disappointed that the 6.2 betas had no mail whatsoever making them useless as a test platform for my needs, I just installed boinc on the two machines and left them running.

    I am testing Zarafa at the moment - and I am less than impressed. Comparing two almost identical machines hardware wise - one 5.2 and Horde - the other 6.2 with Zarafa - the same mail backup job (approx 2G of mail) takes over twice as long with Zarafa with a much bigger increase in CPU utilization (3x +) while doing it - a step backwards...

    My view is that 6.2 should have come with basic mail from the start - Cyrus and Squirrel or similar - and then for those that require it, provide a paid-for mail program with many more bells and whistles such as calender etc...

    I am now seriously considering wiping one of my test machines and giving other products a test run to see if they better suit my needs for when 5.2 becomes unsupported.

    This is not a criticism of Tim's work - just don't need such heavy weight mail program with all the overhead of MySQL for a simple imap server... but then again, I am probably not your average user either...
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    Dominux
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    Wednesday, June 27 2012, 12:56 PM - #Permalink
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    Hi,

    I'm new with ClearOS but I think it's a very bad news for the community.
    Please, consider to have a *full free* mail solution for the community and offer other solution with fee, so give alternative for a *basic* service like a mail server to the community.

    Regards,
    Olivier
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  • Accepted Answer

    Wednesday, June 27 2012, 02:02 PM - #Permalink
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    David Loper suggested that we put together a standard Cyrus IMAP mail server solution (free x2). That would solve:

    1) The resource issues
    2) The free as in beer issue

    The API and GUI for the app is actually already written (!), but the configuration to get it working properly has not been verified. In version 5.x, there's a dependency on Kolab. That dependency needs to be ripped out and Cyrus IMAP should just talk directly to PAM or LDAP.

    Is there a good webmail client to suggest? Squirrelmail seems very dated. Roundcube?
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  • Accepted Answer

    Wednesday, June 27 2012, 03:13 PM - #Permalink
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    I'm sharing Nick's and Tony opinion. I think ClearOS should have a basic free mail solution. If you want more you can buy Zarafa. Also i think it's more than fair that Tim gets a fee for integrating Zarafa.
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  • Accepted Answer

    Wednesday, June 27 2012, 06:29 PM - #Permalink
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    Peter Baldwin wrote:
    Is there a good webmail client to suggest? Squirrelmail seems very dated. Roundcube?
    Back in the CC4.3 or 5.0 days I used Roundcube but it became deprecated and to use it on non-standard ports you had to install pear and other stuff (there is a thread on the old CC forums about it) so I reverted to Horde. For just e-mail Roundcube was then much faster than horde and did everything I wanted. I'd be happy with it. I've never used Squirrelmail
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  • Accepted Answer

    Wednesday, June 27 2012, 08:07 PM - #Permalink
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    I've been using Clark Connect for years, and upgraded to Clear OS a couple months ago. I couldn't be happier. I also have NO problem shelling out $10 for mail support. I only need smtp relay for a fax machine to send pdf and save ink :) $10 is a tiny price to pay. I think allowing small charges for stuff people work really hard on will incentivize others to do the same.
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  • Accepted Answer

    Wednesday, June 27 2012, 08:15 PM - #Permalink
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    I really like Zarafa and I think the community edition covers many bases. Yes its slightly heavy for basic use and slightly light of a full exchange replacement.

    It looks good enough for most of my clients and it mimics outlook so many of my clients are used to the style of interface.

    Some people might think its a bit heavy but for many a solution like horde or squirrel mail isn't going to cut the mustard.

    If the server has both pop, imap & smtp covered so you connect with a client then that is enough.

    If ClearOS offer a free webmail solution then that might be considered the defacto solution. This might actually discourage developers from providing more choice.

    Personally I think Roundcube is the best alternative for a lightweight webmail service that has a variety of plugins for expansion.
    I have used horde and squirrel mail and to be honest they don't cut the mustard in my mind.

    ClearOS also have to support these addons and this might be to the detriment of the core.

    So can we not get developers involved to provide options for Roundcube and Horde and Squirrel Mail. If they want to charge more than Tim for them that is their prerogative.

    I really feel the Marketplace is essential for a Clearos future and if it isn't a marketplace that offers choice and lots of it then someone else will provide a product that does.

    I really don't feel that a free webmail module would provide any benefit to ClearOS. It kicks the marketplace between the legs before it has even had a chance to start.
    Also we are talking a couple of beers here for probably a lot of hard work.

    If anyone fancies offering the community version of Alfresco or Vtiger for the same then at this level I am most happy to contribute.

    If developers are going to provide 3rd party modules and applications and ClearOS provide free alternatives. Whats the point for the developer?

    Or can we expect ClearOS to provide support for all our needs ?

    ClearOS please offer Roundcube for the same as Tim.

    Stuart :)
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  • Accepted Answer

    Thursday, June 28 2012, 02:36 PM - #Permalink
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    Hi,

    I love open source (as I do the support that Tim gives on this forum! :woohoo: ): I jumped on the ClearOS wagon because it was 'feature complete' (for my needs) and because of the active community.

    The best thing about Open Source is not only that it is free, but that knowledge is selflessly shared which in turn triggers selflessly sharing. For that reason i draw the line when it comes to paying, even as little as 10,-, because at that moment the 'selflessly' part is dying....

    Another good thing about Open Source is the freedom to join or leave and to contribute or not: so if you don't like it, step up and make your point, if you don't like the decisions, do it yourself or leave to join another community...

    One big thing missing (for me personally) currently in ClearOS is the lack of basic email functionality on top of which a good email solution can be built: because I do not have the skills to develop and package one myself (If I could then I would most definitely go with the new and improved SOGo 2.0: because it reuses the infrastructure that is already in place, has no licensing limitations, etc.) I am investigating other possibilities amongst which is also looking at different solutions... and that doesn't feel good :(

    just my two cents.... will wait on how this will turn out.

    regards,
    Ruud.
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  • Accepted Answer

    Tomasz
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    Thursday, June 28 2012, 05:08 PM - #Permalink
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    Thank You and I will pay the $10 with out a problem!!! Great Job love ClearOS... :)
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  • Accepted Answer

    Thursday, June 28 2012, 05:23 PM - #Permalink
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    Feel like I ought to chip in here... :)

    Firstly my motivation to develop and help users has never been money, and the team have very kindly offered this as a 'thank you'. This is a step forward (think future developers and cool apps in the market place) for people to contribute to ClearOS. By providing some financial incentive for the substantial effort it takes, it motivates other developers to also contribute which is ultimately better for ClearOS and users.

    Secondly I also understand that the mail server is part of the 'core' ClearOS functionality, and that charging for it seems like a 'feature reduction' or change in the ClearFoundation ethos (regardless of the price)- and because of that I think Pete / Daves suggestion of a Cyrus IMAP solution is a good one. The Market Place should be about choice...

    Moving forward if we as a community want the Market Place to thrive will need to consider how we support user contributions (not just mine). The concept that Open Source software should always be free (as in money) is a wrong one. When you buy it you actually own it to hack, pull apart, use however you wish etc. I'm not going to argue the pros/cons of the open source model but there's plenty on the net...

    If we want ClearOS to have a vibrant selection of turnkey apps that can be used out of the box, rather than a bunch of hacks / howto's then it needs provide some incentive. For example I have supported the Zarafa app in 5.2 for the last two and a half years, across two threads totalling 160000 views and 1200 posts... that takes time, and I sure hope others don't get put off. Given enough time I could probably write one for SOGo...but would you pay for it? ;)

    And yes Ben did pay for the beer :-) thanks!
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  • Accepted Answer

    Thursday, June 28 2012, 07:17 PM - #Permalink
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    First in my opinion the core features of ClearOS community should be free also a mail solution!

    I think the marketplace is good thing for ClearOS and if we want make this a success we need to pay developers. Also when developers get payed it attracts them. Example the App store of Apple. There are really great apps in this store better as Google play. BUT the price must be acceptable! Also free updates!

    I think the price Tim is asking for his Zarafra package is reasonable in this part of the world. If i going to use Zarafa i'm willing to pay this. The only thing i don't like of Zarafa is the limitations. You have to pay again for a license for more users but that is something else.

    Tim i'm hoping for more apps. I'm a bit jealous all the cool things you make. I think what you are doing for this community is really great and i think everyone agree on this.
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  • Accepted Answer

    Thursday, June 28 2012, 07:21 PM - #Permalink
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    Hi Marcel,

    Just to be clear in case there is confusion...the only limitation in Zarafa Community Edition wrt users is when you are using the native Outlook/Exchange protocol (MAPI) to connect.

    If you use the Zarafa webmail UI, or a mail client such as Thunderbird, Mac's Mail or even Outlook via standard messaging protocols (IMAP or POP), there is no limit.

    Ben
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    Thursday, June 28 2012, 07:34 PM - #Permalink
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    I'm a bit jealous all the cool things you make.


    FYI - although Tim fits into the categories of both developer and community forum support (he's just special :P ), there's no reason a developer's time is any more important than yours Marcel...someone who supports users here on the forum, writes documentation (any volunteers? -- developers are hopeless at writing docs!), does social media stuff (Andi Micro, I'm looking at you) etc. We'd love to come up with methods of reward or compensation and we (the guys that make up ClearCenter) have already discussed ways in which it could be done...Right now, its resources that are preventing something from materializing. All in due time...all in due time.

    B.
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  • Accepted Answer

    Thursday, June 28 2012, 07:51 PM - #Permalink
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    Ben Chambers wrote:
    Hi Marcel,

    Just to be clear in case there is confusion...the only limitation in Zarafa Community Edition wrt users is when you are using the native Outlook/Exchange protocol (MAPI) to connect.

    If you use the Zarafa webmail UI, or a mail client such as Thunderbird, Mac's Mail or even Outlook via standard messaging protocols (IMAP or POP), there is no limit.

    Ben


    Thanks for pointing this out Ben. Your reply is clarifying my misunderstandment! Then maybe i have to try Zarafa. @Tim I need a lot of support when setting up mail never did this before is this included :P :laugh: Just joking :)
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  • Accepted Answer

    Thursday, June 28 2012, 07:52 PM - #Permalink
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    Ben Chambers wrote:
    I'm a bit jealous all the cool things you make.


    FYI - although Tim fits into the categories of both developer and community forum support (he's just special :P ), there's no reason a developer's time is any more important than yours Marcel...someone who supports users here on the forum, writes documentation (any volunteers? -- developers are hopeless at writing docs!), does social media stuff (Andi Micro, I'm looking at you) etc. We'd love to come up with methods of reward or compensation and we (the guys that make up ClearCenter) have already discussed ways in which it could be done...Right now, its resources that are preventing something from materializing. All in due time...all in due time.

    B.


    Ben Thank you for your kind words :)
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  • Accepted Answer

    Thursday, June 28 2012, 10:08 PM - #Permalink
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    I think the price Tim is asking for his Zarafra package is reasonable in this part of the world

    Just to clarify - the price has been set by the ClearCenter team on this one ... and I totally agree it needs to be acceptable. No use paying $50 for an app that just prints "hello world". I think the value for money comes in the time saved, in theory you could install the software and configure it all manually. The resources are all there...but if there was a small app which did it for you and saved you a couple hours for a few $ :)
    Tim i'm hoping for more apps.

    Yup! they're in the pipeline :) I enjoy making them too and that's where the real buzz comes for me. Regarding the mail server I'm always happy to help if I can regardless of what your're trying to setup. The ClearOS community is great at providing technical support, and i'm proud to be part of it.
    he's just special

    I'll take that as a compliment :-P
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  • Accepted Answer

    Thursday, June 28 2012, 10:24 PM - #Permalink
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    I'm curious to see this running, but I don't seem to have access to the Marketplace on my system/portal account. Is there something I'm missing? Using Enterprise 5.2 on a clearbox..
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  • Accepted Answer

    Thursday, June 28 2012, 10:29 PM - #Permalink
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    Hi Ben, the Marketplace is a new feature for ClearOS 6.x, you can check out the demo servers or a VM version?
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    Thursday, June 28 2012, 10:39 PM - #Permalink
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    ... Oh right. I have no idea why I didn't think of that already.

    Will give it a go. :thumbsup:
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  • Accepted Answer

    Friday, June 29 2012, 10:32 AM - #Permalink
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    This is..interesting.

    I'd like to say it's great that Zarafa is coming to ClearOS very soon and I'm happy to hear that. I would like to say I have no problems with the fact that Tim gets paid by buying a $10 app for zarafa. He has personally helped me out on several ocasions on problems with ClearOS 5.2 when Zarafa would not provide support due to it being an un supported OS.

    For that I am enternally greatful for the hardwork that Tim has put in even when he didn't have to and is STILL I might add putting in that hard work in supporting 5.2 providing updates for the community to use, you are amazing guy and I wish I had the programming ability to help you with doing the stuff you do alas I am only an engineer but I do want to start learning though! No time like the present.

    However, I do have one thing I would like to add, with you making Zarafa officially a paid for app for both professional and community I think that the community version should be given a chance to get abilities like professional does. What I mean by this is that in clearos professional you are allowing people to buy Zarafa professional per person. I would like to see that you can provide Zarafa small business version to clear os community so that users can also choose to buy the free model of zarafa or pay for small business version that includes mapi.

    When you start doing this paid for version of zarafa on community I feel that it slightly gimps people that choose to use it, Zarafa community is free after all and you are charging $10 for people to use it (again stating I have no problem with this just making a point). I feel that users using the community version should have the oppourtunity to be able to use paid for zarafa as well and not just the open source version since you are now going down this route. It is just a suggestion and one I hope you can take into consideration.

    On a side note, with regards to Zarafa is z-push going to be in the repos or will people have to build it from source, I remember making a post in the mailstack testing a while ago and I haven't really heard much from it since. I would appreciate it if you could provide that kind of information also.
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  • Accepted Answer

    Sunday, July 01 2012, 10:58 AM - #Permalink
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    Just a quick question around this, I assume of course that there will be a smooth transition for those of us currently running the beta?

    Very happy to pay for the addition of Zarafa - in fact, after running the beta I doubt I will ever go back! I just hope all works seamlessly when the time comes for the final release.
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    Sunday, July 01 2012, 01:54 PM - #Permalink
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    Zarafa is sick innit. I think that means very good.

    Community version of Zarafa is superb. I have to say that the inability to do brick level backups and restores in the community version is a hindrance that will bite any sysadmin eventually in the bum.

    I am not really bothered about Outlook MAPI as why bother when you have such a superb zero config web interface.
    If you ever want to restore a single email account to a previous date then its a Pro license.

    Thats the big one for me with Zarafa and its licensing.

    I did a clean install of Zentyal one time and recreated all the users and obviously you get new UID's. I had to manually replace the UID's in the Zarafa community database that had been restored. So it was two spreadsheets of old & new, match em and replace, for over a hundred users. Wasn't happy. :)

    Stuart
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    Sunday, July 01 2012, 10:23 PM - #Permalink
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    Thanks Ben, James, Jared and Stuart for your support, just some responses
    When you start doing this paid for version of zarafa on community I feel that it slightly gimps people that choose to use it, Zarafa community is free after all and you are charging $10 for people to use it
    The way I see it - yes you can download and install the Zarafa Community edition for free, and configure it yourself...or you can pay $10 and have an app that does it all for you :)

    I've have requested Z-push to be formerly included on the build system, I'll ask again.

    Just a quick question around this, I assume of course that there will be a smooth transition for those of us currently running the beta?
    The configuration as I understand it should not change substantially to the main version. Assuming there are no major bugs which become roadblocks then there shouldn't be any issues upgrading to final release.

    Yes unfortunately the brick level backup tool is only available in Zarafa Professional - that's the way Zarafa package it. The mechanism for Community backup is via Mysqldump, and backup of attachment directory /var/lib/zarafa. With the ClearOS configuration backup, there is the ability to restore systems to the previous LDAP setup and therefore restoring the full Zarafa database shouldn't involve mapping hundreds of users mailboxes to the right UID
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    Tuesday, July 03 2012, 06:55 AM - #Permalink
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    Tim,
    Regarding the brick level backup that's not entirely true. If you buy small business edittion of zarafa you can do brick level backup as well as use outlook mapi clients. Professional version allows you to intergrate Blackberry enterprise server on top of the adittions of what small business server has and extra support blocks.

    This is why on my previios post I think clearos should allow the community version to have small business edittion if they have professional version on the paid for version of clearos.

    It's cheaper then professional and it gives people a chance to get an affordable paid for zarafa. I know you can manually install small business on top of the app but I think clearos should really think about intergrating it into their app market.
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    Tuesday, July 03 2012, 09:42 AM - #Permalink
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    Good point James as ClearOS is perfect for the Small Business.

    Does an IMAP backup utility in conjunction with the community edition break any of the licensing?

    ClearOS has the user credentials in LDAP and being IMAP it wouldn't just be limited to Zarafa.

    Maybe Tim might be tempted to have a look at SOGo http://www.sogo.nu
    SOGo practically matches Zarafa and has the advantage of being under a GPL and does brick level for free.

    I still don't mind $10 for integration and choice would be advantageous to all.
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    Tuesday, July 03 2012, 10:56 AM - #Permalink
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    Stuart, there should be no problem with using any type of backup utility with clearos as long as your not trying to hack a free way of using their zarafa-backup :)

    I have had a client that I have sold zarafa licenses to (I am a zarafa partner) use a sync of e-mail to another server as a backup without any issues in the past before he even bought the zarafa small business edittion. This should be no problem.
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    Wednesday, July 04 2012, 08:04 PM - #Permalink
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    I first found out about ClearOS from FLOSS weekly. I have been following your project ever since. Before then I was using another system for my home server. They started charging for apps too. The biggest problem I found was they waited for all the work to be done on the new verison and only communicated the changes when they released it. If they really wanted a community around their product they should of at least asked the community itself and made them feel like our voices counted.

    It also became apparent that when I was paying for an app and I had a problem or bug they would take forever to fix them or they always told me to file the bug upstream. This happened because there core developers were few and were supporting too many apps. This lead me to ask myself why am I paying all this money for. The only answer I could come up with was for configuration and not for support or help. Also there were a few packages that were misconfigured or not configured with the settings that I needed. I knew I could do installation and configuration myself so I did just that and stopped buying apps.

    The second part of the story is that when I got involved I was fixing their documentation. I do this at work and I'm a bit of a documentation nazi. So I fixed what I could. However I started feeling let down because I was contributing yet they only rewarded the programmers/developers. So ultimately I stopped contributing and started searching for alternatives.

    The reason I'm telling you this story is that I beleive that charging for apps gets to be a slippery slope. For $10 dollars what are you providing? Configuration, support, or both? I think you should make this very clear. Keep the expectations or your customers the same as the expectations of your developers. Second Zarafa is licensed under the AGPL which lets you charge for it. It also says you have to release your sources to the public. If you do these few things I see no reason not to charge for the app.
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    Wednesday, July 04 2012, 08:29 PM - #Permalink
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    Hi Reynaldo,

    Welcome to ClearOS and nice post.

    In fact, your suggestion is exactly 'in the works'. In the 6.3 beta, there are new tags introduced in the Marketplace Details section...one for 'Warranty Policy'...and another for "Support Policy".

    I'm thinking of using an icon system to explain at a glance what an app's policies are wrt to these two fields. Still mulling it over, but for "Warranty Support", something like this:

    N/A - Not applicable...app is free
    Red 'X' - No refunds/returns
    Green '24hr' - Full refund, no questions asked, within 24 hours of purchase
    Yellow '30d' - 80% refund, explanation required

    Those tags are just suggestions at this point.

    For Support Policy, a similar color-coded system that indicates where you can go for support. For example:

    Green - Community Forum support
    Blue - Developer can be contacted via email for support
    Red - Developer can be contacted to request paid support
    Orange - ClearCenter will provide best-possible support under terms of your Professional Subscription
    Black - ClearCenter can be contacted to provide support on consulting basis

    We'll have a binary selector here...so an app could have Green and Blue...or Green, Blue and Orange or Green and Orange etc., depending on how the developer wants to model support, and how ClearCenter perceives how much support could come in for an app, and how complex it is.

    Here's a good example of why we'd want to go this way...Someone creates a VoIP app around Asterisk and places it in the Marketplace for $20. Someone buys it, and bases their business phone communications on it. We don't want the user thinking they can lean on us while we drop everything and try and fix a phone system we're not familiar with under a $480 all inclusive support plan. So in this example, Green, Red and Black would be appropriate, given that there's no way support could be included for $20. That figure represents the time savings to install Asterisk or a PBX/VoIP stack from source.

    Does this kind of system make sense to everyone? Helpful? Too complicated? Of course, there will be a supporting web page detailing the colour coded icons out...that has yet to get created, but is my very next task once I fix Marketplace version control.

    Ben
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    Wednesday, July 04 2012, 09:22 PM - #Permalink
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    @James, FYI I've updated my build of Z-push to the final 2.0 release here. Hopefully we can get it up onto the repos... :)
    ftp://timburgess.net/repo/clearos/6.2/x86_64/testing/zarafa-z-push-2.0-2.clearos.noarch.rpm
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    Wednesday, July 04 2012, 11:05 PM - #Permalink
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    Hi Ben,

    Yes, that system would make a lot off sense and it would make it very clear what to expect from the app and the developer.

    I suggest to NOT give the ClearCenter support different colors as you would only add that on Apps that are made/provided by Clear and that info is also provided. Or are you thinking about giving support (in the community) on apps from developers?

    I do agree that basic e-mail should be available as a free install and that should not have to be Zarafa. Paying $10 for a complete install off a community edition off any product I think is a good thing and would encourage a lot of developers to do the same..

    Jeroen
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    Thursday, July 05 2012, 02:41 PM - #Permalink
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    Hi Jeroen,
    Or are you thinking about giving support (in the community) on apps from developers?

    Yes...that's exactly what we're planning...for example, any ClearFoundation free app is supported if the user is running Professional Edition with support terms.

    So, part of the Marketplace submission process (which is a Work-in-Progress) will be to come to terms around support. If it's a small app that the guys providing ClearCenter support are already very familiar with, then sure, we'll provide support for the app for users who have Professional Standard or Premium, or want to pay us on a per incident basis for Professional Lite or Basic.

    Ben
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    Thursday, July 05 2012, 04:30 PM - #Permalink
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    Just a quick one. But isn't that stepping on the developers feet whilst opening clearos to extra support requirements.

    If you take joomla they have an extention directory. The joomla people maintain the core. Developers maintain their addon.
    In fact it would be strange to expect ClearOs to support 3rd party offerings?
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    Friday, July 06 2012, 12:39 PM - #Permalink
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    Hey Stuart,

    Maybe we're mis-communicating here...

    We (ClearCenter) would only provide support (not maintenance/updates) for an app if:

    a) the app was under our support policy umbrella
    b) the user requesting support had a paid ClearOS Professional subscription

    This allows what I call 'convenience' apps - apps that for a small fee, I'd rather pay a guy like Tim than try and install it myself - to enter the Marketplace at low cost, but not expose anyone to the really expensive part of providing userland support - unless there has been a higher value exchange that's taken place (eg. purchase of a $480 ClearOS Professional Standard subscription).

    Ben
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    Friday, July 06 2012, 02:19 PM - #Permalink
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    I've been enjoying the read here on this thread. Hopefully there'll be a way to compensate developers for their work but not restrict options. Sounds like that's getting hashed out.

    I'll be glad to pay a $10 download fee to Tim for his excellent work.
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    Friday, July 06 2012, 02:31 PM - #Permalink
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    Still confused :)

    "Hi Jeroen,
    Or are you thinking about giving support (in the community) on apps from developers?"

    So if you have a ClearOS Professional subscription then you would provide support for it?
    I am not criticising in any way, just surprised that you would. Hopefully the marketplace will flourish and I am thinking of getting into development mode.
    Alfesco would be my first port of call, Vtiger after that and maybe Open Bravo.

    So if I provide modules for install and configuration would you provide support.

    I can't see how you could possibly support a unknown and hopefully diverse offering?

    The Zarafa config is simple but its a complex piece of software. So in your scenario are you saying that you will check that the settings are correct (firewall, ports...) after that its back to the developer?
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    Jay
    Jay
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    Friday, July 06 2012, 09:39 PM - #Permalink
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    I think like most that the $10 payment is fine but want to be sure if:

    1. Will it be the Community edition or Free edition (with 3 licenses).
    2. Will Z-Push will be setup as part of the app?
    3. Will the new Zarafa WebApp interface will be installed too?

    Last thing and I think it will be awesome, is if we could have access to the small business edition instead of community or free edition so as to buy licenses.
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    Saturday, July 07 2012, 09:54 PM - #Permalink
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    Hi Jay, ClearOS are offering the Community edition, and the Professional edition of Zarafa only via the Marketplace. The pricing of the Professional edition in the Marketplace is very similar to the Small Business Edition anyway, and you get the backing of ClearOS support. I don't think its stated anywhere but you can in theory manually install the zarafa-licensed el6 rpm provided by Zarafa and purchase your own or indeed make use of their 3 free licenses.

    Z-push is not part of the app, but I'm hoping that the Z-push RPM will be available from the ClearOS repo soon. Once installed it doesn't need any further configuration (see the Z-push thread for details).
    ftp://timburgess.net/repo/clearos/6.2/x86_64/testing/zarafa-z-push-2.0-2.clearos.noarch.rpm

    EDIT: Zarafa WebApp is available once you have purchased the app, and can be installed from the command line using 'yum install zarafa-webapp'
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    Sunday, July 15 2012, 04:54 AM - #Permalink
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    Hi Tim

    We installed a new server with 6.2 last month, and although were a bit disappointed to find it was not yet production ready, understand the need to get it rolling asap so that testing can really take place. Good to see the credit you're getting for the Zarafa implementation.

    Now that the 6.3 version has made Zarafa available, I'm planning to test run a migration in August. A few questions; 

    - Is it still possible to use the normal MySql database rather than the System one?
    - I am assuming that once all the users have been created in clearos, and the zarafa database has been imported, that all the users need to be manually re-hooked using zarafa-admin?
    - Does the webconfig httpd server still need manual tweaking or is this automatically done now?
    - As I understand it from you previous post, a current Zarafa license (bought from Zarafa here in Holland) can be imported, but that needs to be done manually, and not through Marketplace?

    Thanks for your time, Tim
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